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Post by Jessica on May 24, 2007 15:49:03 GMT -5
I love how they seem to be looking into what sam posted as a way to find spies, what a waste of time.
Also, if anyone pushes on me or tenchi about it saying judy, I say judy to almost everybody when I say her name, so its not like no one was familiar with her being called judy.
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Post by Claire on May 24, 2007 16:46:51 GMT -5
and it could be a frame! i put one in my video. well probably a few
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Post by Tenchi on May 24, 2007 18:02:38 GMT -5
Yeah, something like a picture frame  |
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Post by Bebe on Jun 23, 2007 0:02:21 GMT -5
I love looking at the teaser. I think Sam did a great job pulling it all together. And he's right - my Bebe talk totally is identifiable, LOL. The parts he pulled from my confessional ("Shit shit shit", "I have to lay low for a while") were so un-Bebe that it totally worked.
The "No time for Judy" thing almost busted us. Someone - I think Trina or Shane - came up with the idea to look at convos to figure out who called Judith "Judy" and there really were only 4 or 5 people - 2 of them being Jessica and Tenchi - who used that word. Clever idea. As soon as I heard that idea, I scrambled to find every possible reference to "Judy" that I could find to throw suspicion onto more people.
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Post by Tenchi on Jun 23, 2007 2:35:20 GMT -5
lol When the "Judy thing" (there I go again) came up, my counter arguments were (1) I said the word Judy to almost everyone and (2) Judy was her nickname, that even Judith herself encouraged everyone to use. It's below her avatar.
But yeah, when they got that lead, I almost panicked... and especially when Reicheru got wind of the use of "Judy".
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Post by Jessica on Jun 23, 2007 7:18:11 GMT -5
I actually feel pretty bad because I noticed that before Sam posted the image and I said nothing because I didn't wanna make Sam go through the process of redoing it.
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Post by Reicheru on Jun 23, 2007 20:20:56 GMT -5
OK... this is all very interesting. But as usual, I'm most concerned with the bits involving ME. And I have to say my opinion of the spies has significantly lessened on seeing what they thought of me.  1) PinkPowerRanger... TENCHI!!!! Are you freaking serious? BEBE!!! You knew who I was by then, surely, so you could've told him he was wrong? YVES as Pink Power Ranger? Come off it! 2) No, I didn't have ANYTHING to do with Judith's exile. Despite saying to Bebe something like this: "Judith? Oh yeah, she keeps suspecting people who can't possibly be exiled, so nobody can catch her in a lie. She goes around targeting citizens, and bandwagoned for Jakub. Oh, and she's totally sneaky. But I don't suspect her. Not for a second. Nope. No way. And BTW, Jack, Tenchi and Carrie are all targeting her in case you want to join in. OOPS I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT! HOW STUPIDLY INDISCREET AM I!" No giveaways there then! 3) Jessica said Jakub was MY doing. WTF? I think I mentioned his name in ONE PM and a convo or two as someone I suspected. After that it was all Judith. Oh yeah... when Jessica looked to be in danger, I think I pushed Tenchi to vote Jakub instead of her. He didn't. Big deal. 4) "REICHERU IS PROTECTING JENNIPHER FOR NO REASON." Tenchi, I practically spelt this one out for you... 5) "Reicheru got wind of Judy". I what? Never once occurred to me that there might be anything in this. I thought Jordan's thread was so much bullcrap, and said so. (The only thing that DID occur to me, which kinda put me on your tail much later on, Tenchi, was that the spies had mentioned "sending the others" out to "do something" with Judith- obviously concerning her exile. Now the only people who'd done that were me and Anneliese, who'd acted fairly covertly - Tenchi and Jack had been quite straightforward about getting votes for her. So it looked like a deliberate attempt to take suspicion OFF those two and put it on my head... especially with all the heat that was descending on me at that time.) Seriously, what were you guys thinking? |
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Post by Tenchi on Jun 23, 2007 20:27:03 GMT -5
THat's what I meant. Well...er... you were a "girl"! Don't blame me!  Maybe I wasn't paying attention... Or maybe I just found the reasons dumb.  |
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Post by Reicheru on Jun 23, 2007 20:28:13 GMT -5
Oh, beg pardon, I thought you meant about Jessica and you being the ones who mostly called her "Judy". And reasons aren't dumb if they're right! NO WAY was Jennipher ever going to be a spy, and if I hadn't lost my confidence completely following Judith's exile and my near-framing, I'd have spoken out a helluva lot more strongly. |
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Post by Tenchi on Jun 23, 2007 20:33:13 GMT -5
SEE how dumbly you're defending her even now. For the sole reason Jennipher is a weird character to talk to that gives half-baked suspicions and vague responses and evil interrogations, she gained a lot of suspicion. And I still think you didn't want to think of it that way. Still, she was exiled... why? Because the other citizens saw what I was talking about. Unfortunate you didn't.
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Post by Reicheru on Jun 24, 2007 0:31:25 GMT -5
Erm... ok. I still don't completely understand what you're talking about, but let me analyze it for a minute. You seem to be saying that in NOT suspecting Jenn like many others did, I'd made some kind of mistake.
I was RIGHT. The people who voted with the majority were WRONG. That hasn't happened too many times in Spies 3, so allow me the luxury of taking a moment to appreciate it, ok? Right...
Ok, next point. Given that I WAS right, how on earth could I have missed something that the others saw? Plainly I saw more than they did, or else I would have been WRONG and THEY would have been RIGHT.
Now at the start, as you know, I was fairly suspicious of Jennipher - I think I was even the first person to bring her name up as a possible suspect, at least among the five of us (Annie, Tenchi, Jack, Jess and myself). A few conversations later, I'd completely reversed my position.
Why had I done this? Because Jennipher had been UNWILLING TO PART WITH INFORMATION and DELIBERATELY STAND-OFFISH ABOUT IT.
Does that sound like a spy to anyone? Not like any of the eleven spies we've had so far. Mercedes I never even talked to so I don't know what she was like, but Gigi, Julian and Leo I can answer for. All of them tried to get into my confidence without actually giving much information away. Raphael I think fit much into the same category. Myself, Allison, Tenchi, Jessica, Bebe and Claire were somewhat different - we all had false information ready to give out, a "citizen persona" if you like.
My point is, no spy in the series so far has EVER deliberately lost themselves the chance of getting information by refusing to talk to people. Not in the way Jennipher did it, anyway. It's never happened and it probably will never happen. Ergo, Jennipher wasn't a spy.
Why did she play the game like that? My best guess remains - fear. She didn't know who to trust and was reluctant to share anything with anybody. You called her "weird", but to my mind there's nothing weird about this - if she's an inexperienced citizen who hasn't worked out how to communicate with people she doesn't really trust yet. It's completely understandable and logical. I don't think many others picked up on this, or if they did they didn't do anything about it.
A spy doesn't have to be afraid of trusting people. All he has to be afraid of is other people not trusting him.
You can say all you like that Jennipher appeared "suspicious". The point is she shouldn't have appeared suspicious to anyone who was thinking along the lines that I was - which were obviously CORRECT.
The other thing is that you talk about Jenn as though the fact that people were suspicious of her was her fault. Well, I've suggested the same thing about Carrie (although she was unlucky to be up against it from the start). But Jenn? NO FREAKING WAY. I look over my conversations with Carrie and I still can't see any definite reason to NOT suspect her, even now I know she's a citizen. I'd say the same thing about Jakub although I've got less to go on there.
With Jenn and Judith though, there were clues all over the place, and the citizens who voted for them missed them entirely. Was this Jenn's fault, or Judith's? No, it was ours - the citizens who voted for them. We were the ones who fucked up. And in the end, Jenn's exile (which I wasn't responsible for at all) was as huge a fuck-up as Judith's (which you only have to read everyone's convos to realise that to a very large degree I was). So don't let the Jennipher votors off the hook because you think she appeared "suspicious". What I saw, they could've seen - but they didn't. And that's their fault.
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Post by Tenchi on Jun 24, 2007 2:09:33 GMT -5
You have to see how Jenn actually talked to other people. I could be subjective just as you are but I feel she is cold. Not fearful, just cold. She was in the game, she wanted information to solve the mystery, but she didn't want to give any. I (along with many others) saw that as icy behavior. I mean, its either she was a Citizen who doesn't want to work with everybody, or a spy being too careful about what he/she says.
ALSO
The thing is, you always refer too much as what has happened in the past seasons.
Blah has happened in Spies two and its probably going to happen this time. Blah has behaved like blah in Spies one so it should blah happen again.
THIS WAS YOUR BIGGEST DOWNFALL.
How did you catch Tenchi? By looking at the facts NOW and what happened in the past episodes. Not at what happened in other series or with other people. This is what's advantageous of having new Spies/ players in the series.
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Post by Reicheru on Jun 24, 2007 3:15:37 GMT -5
That's definitely true about looking at other seasons, at least as far as Judith goes. But Jennipher? Nope.
In Spies 1, I knew Frank suspected me, so I cleared him. In Spies 3, I knew Jennipher suspected me, so I cleared her. In both cases, it was nothing to do with history. How could it be in Frank's case considering I'd never played a Spies game before?
Nor - to make this clear - had I ever connected up Jenn and Frank in my mind, until now; I'm not suggesting that my views on Frank somehow affected my view of Jenn, I'm just using him as an example. I simply knew that Jenn was acting in a way I didn't believe a spy would act AT THE TIME. That wasn't based on the past. It was based entirely on her.
Also I think that to say I "caught" Tenchi argues a great deal of false modesty! By that reasoning, every single one of the spies was caught at least three times by the final six! I might have KNOWN about you - eventually. I knew about Raphael, Jessica and Bebe - eventually. But I couldn't get the votes, and that's what matters.
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