Episode Five Confessionals

[Miles]

Okay, so let's drop the suspect list now. Because EVERYONE IS ACTING LIKE A SPY.

Sorry, but Anneliese REALLY FOUND A WAY TO PISS ME OFF. Rant coming soon.

[Miles]

I was going to post this in the Burg. But it might be wiser not to:

Okay, so this REALLY pisses me off. It pisses me off that three people have lied about their abilities (I'm not counting Arthur) and I STILL fail to see how this has helped us at all. To help your alliances, to help you, whatever. If I hear one more person complain about how bad people are playing, I have to point out that those people likely never lied about a special ability for the "fun" of it.

How can ANYONE with a special ability now come out in the open and say it? No one will believe them. Because it's almost a fad to say that you've been lying about your ability, now. Is it even about getting the spies out anymore? Or is it about fabricating something soooo much so that people won't know how to ever trust you again?

Half of the fucking stuff we've been speculating on for the past few episodes have been based off of these "abilities" and who has been lying about what word they posted and whatever. We've gotten NOWHERE, and I thank Anneliese in large part now.

[Anneliese]

Sorry Miles But I just couldn't find a way to trust you and I had to say I made the whole thing up to try to keep making progress not only within my "trust group", but indeed for my own benefit.

I really do think that in the end, the bunker drama was a contribution to the eventual realization that Tenchi was a spy... So even if it wasn't, I'd still like to think so

[Tenchi]

Don't worry Annie, I would agree the bunker drama helped Rei piece it all out. So yeah, it did place some contribution to the almost-ousting of Tenchi (though it gave me an excuse to be "not Imprisoned" too).

[Miles]

God, I was so mad at you Anneliese. I sort of miss this game and hating everything that happened in it.

[Reicheru]

The bunker drama gave me Jessica, Tenchi, Bebe and Bruce. So yes, I think it was useful.

But I think, Miles, that the reason you were outed had less to do with the fact that people didn't believe you had a role (you did, I'd confirmed it thanks to Taylor) but more because they were sceptical that it would be a citizen's role. Looking back, I can see why Sam would want a role like that in the game - it would really suck to have someone be given a role like "gift giver" and then have them get imprisoned in the second round. But I also think it's unfair on the spies for them to put themselves at risk going all-out to discover roles (as if all of them weren't handed to the spies on a plate by the citizens anyway this time!) and then imprisoning the role players, only for the same roles to be given to somebody else. This is why I was so convinced, despite your arguments, that the "inheritor" was a spy's role and not a citizen's one.

A certain host's licence might be in order. If someone with a really great role is imprisoned early on, before anyone even knows about it, it might be an idea for Sam to "give" the role to someone else. If the role's been made public, of course, there's not a lot he can do... Even handing out roles later in the game, once it's become obvious who's active and who's not, might be a good idea. If the spies imprison someone who has a role, but the spies have no idea they have it, and nobody else has any idea either, I don't see any particular unfairness.

PS - I'M NOT OBSESSED! I've just never bothered to take Spies 3 off my list of (fifty or so) homepages yet...

[Reicheru]

miles said:

God, I was so mad at you Anneliese. I sort of miss this game and hating everything that happened in it.

How come it's always the quietest ones who get the best lines?

[Anneliese]

reicheru said:

-

PS - I'M NOT OBSESSED! I've just never bothered to take Spies 3 off my list of (fifty or so) homepages yet...

I'll admit that I am But that may be because I was away for a good month while all the reunion stuff was going on and everything was being revealed. I had to do a lot of catch up ...

[Tenchi]

reicheru said:

The bunker drama gave me Jessica, Tenchi, Bebe and Bruce. So yes, I thijavascript:add(' ')
nk it was useful.

But I think, Miles, that the reason you were outed had less to do with the fact that people didn't believe you had a role (you did, I'd confirmed it thanks to Taylor) but more because they were sceptical that it would be a citizen's role.

Not to mention the spies REALLY want to get the inheritor out without a hitch. We only needed to convince two people to get the votes we need against Miles.

Also, I was really surprised why Rei's explanation was bought. I thought that the way his role works, its either a Spy made it up or its real. It cannot be a Spy role.

[Miles]

Thank you, Tenchi I've never seen the logic in the spy-being-the-inheritor-theory .

[Reicheru]

I never bought the citizen-as-inheritor theory. (Still don't... but then I still don't believe Bruce was a citizen either. And I still am not sure Tenchi was a spy.)

[Tenchi]

The best way to see the logic behind Citizen as Inheritor was looking at the revealed roles.

Look at how three of the five roles were made (I'm excluding Decision Maker because everybody was never sure of the details of that role): Gift Giver, Builder and Do or Die -- all very important roles. Comparing it to Ballot Stuffer or Gambler or Card Reader, it will REALLY hurt the citizens to lose these people early on via a "random" Imprisonment or a half-baked Exile. So the Inheritor role must be real.

I also remember Jessica pointing out the validity of the presence of the Inheritor. For a balanced Mafia game, (generally) there must be an equal number Spies against a number of Citizens with abilities. And counting them all... we have Five against Five. It was the same for Spies one (3 vs 3) and Spies 2 (3 vs 3, Ballot Stuffer can work both for Citizens and Spies).

[Anneliese]

I side with Rei. on this one... It wasn't as much that I didn't believe Inheritor existed, but I was convinced it was a Spy role. Sam told us there would be Spy roles and this was the first one we had gotten wind of that we weren't sure could be citizen-oriented. It seemed to me that for the spies to have worked hard enough to eliminate a citizen with an important role *generally it might be harder to imprison them "randomly*, they could be rewarded with receiving the role and its benefits...

I dunno, I guess to some it will seem more logical than to others, but I definitely thought the same way Rei did here...

[Reicheru]

Actually Sam clarified this for me when I misconstrued it... he never said a spy definitely would have a fixed role, although as it turned out one of them did (Raphael, thanks to Shane).

[Anneliese]

Oh, I know it makes sense now, I'm just saying that at the time, our best assumption was there was a fixed spy role, and of all of the ones suggested (between the lies and denial, which was my fault), Inheritor seemed to be the most spy-oriented.